Lived Experience Forum

[chibam]

Things have changed a lot since I first started taking notice of the public dialog about mental illness/mental health. In those days, all anyone ever talked about was "mental illness" - specifically referring to something that was causing the brain to not work right.

But since then, there had been much more recognition that the causes of many supposed cases of "mental illness" are actually real world problems, and not some sort of malfunction in the brain. We've even gone so far that many official documents are openly proclaiming that "mental health" and suicide should be handled as completely separate issues now, as quite often, the people who attempt/commit suicide are completely sane.

Few people would deny that the original concept of "mental illness" - that some people are depressed, anxious, suicidal, paranoid, ect. because something has gone wrong in their brains - is at least somewhat true. Many people do suffer in these ways in part or in whole because of some internal problem. But we are starting to recognize that, in many cases, the sufferers brain is not malfunctioning and that it does not need any sort of treatment, because the real problem is elsewhere.

However, this new awareness is often becoming muddied and confusing to a lot of people. I had a conversation just the other day that made me realize we still have a long way to go before we're all on the same page.

I read this SANE factsheet earlier, to try to get some sense of where we are in terms of the official literature these days. And it concerns me a bit that there's only a fleeting mention of real-world problems, that doesn't lead to a more substantial discussion.

When these feelings persist − but don't seem to have a cause that justifies them − and interfere with the ability to lead and enjoy everyday life...

Then it gets even more confusing a little further down, in the section addressing the importance of Support in the Community; as it leans upon one of the most ambiguous and therefore meaningless phrases of our time: "psychosocial disability". There's not even anything close to a consensus about what this terms means. I've seen numerous prominent people explain it in such a way that implies it requires both an actual mental illness (e.g. Schizophrenia) and a significant real-life problems (e.g. chronic unemployment). However, I've also seen prominent people imply that it can exclusively refer to a real-life problem; so if you are being bullied, that alone means you have a "psychosocial disability".

And this ambiguity is really relevant, because it contributes so badly to the mass confusion about whether a person's depression, suicidalness, anxiety, ect. may exclusively be caused by some real-world suffering they are undergoing.

Novices stumbling across that fact sheet looking for information will probably have no way of definitively understanding that jargon. But because of the connotations of that word, "disability", it may prime them to assume that there is some sort of internal fault within the person who is suffering, when that may not be the case at all. That, in turn, might lead them to try to steer the sufferer towards solutions that are geared towards correcting the person (e.g. medication, "talk therapies", ect.), when in fact the only remedy they really ought to be considdering is to eliminate the sufferer's real-life problem.

We are acknowledging that real-life problems are, quite often, the entire essence of a person's distress. But, from my recent observations, we don't seem to be acknowledging it enough, nor with enough clarity and detail. Because there are still a lot of people who seem to be convinced that depression, anxiety, suicidalness, ect. must - to at least some degree - indicate some sort of internal breakdown within the sufferer that needs to be "treated".

Which leads me to another bit of information on this SANE factsheet which, IMHO, is probably quite (unintentionally) misleading. Namely, the subject heading: "You can’t just ‘snap out of’ a mental health issue".

This is certainly true, as is the contents of that entire section of the page. But I'm starting to get the impression that people are misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase. Specifically, I think people are misinterpreting it to mean that there are no straightforward fixes to mental health problems.

No, you can't just "snap out of" being suicidally depressed about being lonely. But you can be rapidly and effectively cured of it by entering into a meaningful new relationship with someone. You can't just "snap out of" your chronic anxiety that your spouse is going to beat you up again. But you can have that anxiety largely (or perhaps entirely) alleviated by being taken out of that violent household; and having safeguards applied to insure you never encounter your abuser again.

Often our grief does have relatively straightforward solutions. But unfortunately, many people have been lead to believe that it doesn't. So instead of taking any interest in actually fixing our problems, they push "mental health" treatments upon us that do nothing to try to fix the real problems. Hence we get nowhere, fast; and our problems persist and typically get worse and worse.

Which brings me to a few of the other common catchphrases that really drives me nuts:

"You shouldn't try to help them.."

"You can't help them..."

"Don't try to 'fix the problem', you should just sit there and listen..."

And I apologize to the forum regulars, because I know I've ranted and raved about this one several times before; but it apparently bears repeating.

Once again, I'm not denying that there's sound reasoning behind these statements, nor am I denying that, in many circumstances, they are really good advice.

But we need to make it clear to the public that there are also a lot of circumstances where this is disastrously bad advice! And that anyone who is getting involved with another person's grief really needs to determine what sort of problem the person is suffering, and whether or not real-life help is called for. Because it often is! Sometimes, you really should do your best to try to fix the suffering person's problem!

Once again, I'm not denying or belittling the experiances of people who really do have mental illnesses; nor the appropriateness of the treatments they engage in. Mental illness is a real thing, and therefore, treatments that are geared towards correcting the brains of the sufferers are valid, in such circumstances.

But we need to acknowledge that serious, long-term bouts of mental suffering via depression, anxiety, sucidalness, or any of a dozen other enduring negative emotions, are often solely caused by some sort of real-life crisis, with no malfunction going on in the brain whatsoever. And that often such cases of distress can be easily and effectively cured, if only someone takes the time to eliminate the real-world problem that's causing it.

Set your lonely single neighbor up with a boyfriend who she is highly compatable with.

Go down to your kid's school and get the staff to shut down the bullies who keep labelling him "fat piggy" all over social media. Make the bullying stop.

Arrange a decent job for your chronically unemployed sister-in-law, that helps her achieve her career goals.

Offer a loan to your financially-struggling coworker; or, if you can't manage that, seek out some way they can get the money they need to tie themselves over.

Help your teammate who's stuck in an unhappy household intergrate into a new, better-fitting household.

Or, if you can't be bothered sticking your neck out for your suffering acquaintance, then don't.

Just don't go making out that their grief is primarily in their head, and that it's their brain that needs to be corrected; or that they just need a professional to browbeat them into "coping" with their distressing lives. Because often the problem is nowhere near their brains. Their brains are perfectly fine.

Fix the life problem and you fix the grief. I can't say it any plainer then that.

That's not an answer for every case of distress; but we need to make it well known that it is the best answer for a great many cases of distress.

Because, from what I've seen recently, there are still far too many people who just cannot look past the brain.

[Historylover]

Thoroughly agree @chibam. Personally I think blaming the brain is a shield behind which many, if not most/all? therapists take cover. It's just an easy 'out' and there's little hard work or stress involved for them. I don't know how to correct these misconceptions when so many subscribe unquestioningly to the explanation. 

I have to ask what progress has been made in psychiatry since the days of Jung and Freud, what misconceptions have been corrected? It seems there is just a broader array. Considerable advances have been made in the field of medicine but little improvement in psychiatry. Patients are meant to be cured not just treated in an ongoing manner. The only thing altering is that there is a broader array of employment available in 'treatment fields' and, it seems, everyone is an expert.

I just wanted to let you know that I understand your point of view even if I may not have responded to your exact points. Just too tired.

I hope you are doing alright. Sending best wishes. 👍😊

[MDT]

Hey @chibam
I accept your view and I agree with it.
The notion that there is NO correlation between lifestyle (A broad term that encompasses so much) and mental health/illness/wellbeing is nonsense. There is a correlation between the two.

I believe the strictly medical model of treating mental malady is not good enough. In attempting to treat psychological malady as a medical issue, we limit ourselves to medical instruments and medical processes that would otherwise assist us with a medical issue.

But matters of the mind are far more complex. There is entire field dedicated to it after all.

I love the place where this is coming from:

Set your lonely single neighbor up with a boyfriend who she is highly compatable with.

Go down to your kid's school and get the staff to shut down the bullies who keep labelling him "fat piggy" all over social media. Make the bullying stop.

Arrange a decent job for your chronically unemployed sister-in-law, that helps her achieve her career goals.

Offer a loan to your financially-struggling coworker; or, if you can't manage that, seek out some way they can get the money they need to tie themselves over.

Help your teammate who's stuck in an unhappy household intergrate into a new, better-fitting household.

Today i met with a mate who I've known for a few years but have never actually caught up with one on one. It was refreshing and we spoke about this sort of thing. I believe this is a step in the right direction for me and my dealings with mental chaos (if you will). I think this is the starting point we must all retreat to. Yesterday was my last day at my job, to sit with my colleagues and chat at lunch about school and growing up and career choices was refreshing.

I have found already after only about 3 weeks of injecting genuineness into the world from my life, that things are looking brighter already.

PErsonally, I think we go through hell with mental illness. But this is not a hell that is forever, but it is also not an easy one.

"Fix the life problem and you fix the grief. I can't say it any plainer then that."

Yes agreed. So long as we are able to articulate EXACTLY what the life problem is. Once we know it, we can act. I believe in acting too quickly, we can worsen it. Seek to understand why there is an issue then go to the root cause of it.

@Historylover (hey there) mentioned Jung.

one quote from him that i love is "until you make the unconscious conscious, it will guide your life and you will call it fate".

There are realms in our being that medicine can't permeate. Only through introspection can they be unlocked.

I started to do that at the beginning of the year. Go right back to basics and then re engage with the world and people.

Sincere best wishes to you both

[chibam]

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@Historylover wrote:

I just wanted to let you know that I understand your point of view even if I may not have responded to your exact points. Just too tired.

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Thanks, @Historylover 😊. I know that feeling all too well. 🤗

At this point, I would have to think that anybody in the professional circuit who doesn't understand the prevalence of 'real-life problem distress' is being willfully ignorant. There are just too many voices out there now in the public dialog, making it known that many people in distress have no mental problems whatsoever, only terrible life problems.

How we turn the tide when so many in the industry want to maintain the old traditions is an entire problem within itself.

But what I was mainly trying to address with my post above was the level of confusion and misinformation floating around within the general public. Because I think there is still this massive presumption that it's the mental health system that alleviates all human suffering; so when your average bystander knows someone who is suffering terribly, they believe that the only thing they are supposed to do is coerce the suffering person into going into the mental health system to recieve "treatment".

But if it was more well-recognized that quite often, our anguish comes entirely down to shortcomings with our lives, perhaps the people around us would me more prone to remedy the actual problems we're suffering, and thus we wouldn't be guided towards completely useless therapy that we don't need at all.

Still, I guess that most (if not all) misconceptions within the general public are probably rooted in the information that the mental health system deals out. So perhaps it isn't possible to address the confusion/misinformation circulating through the general public, without first dealing with the stubborn sections of the mental health system that are still solely focussed on the brain/biology of the sufferer.

In any event, I hope you, too, are doing well at the moment, @Historylover .🙂

[Historylover]

Nice to read your thoughts, @MDT. I don't think I've ever read such an extensive post from you and it was very refreshing.

I would say that so-called 'mental illness' is, partially and importantly, a response to ancestral problems—we can't separate ourselves from 'the sins of the fathers', in my opinion, because they shape descendant's future conditioning. They become 'woven in' to a family's attitudes,practices, personalities, and govern how they are treated in response, which can be very damaging. They become the family's 'game' and children are drawn into the play unavoidably, in my opinion. War experiences must also play a large part, and there is today much talk about generational conditioning. Ancestral baggage. 

Overlay that with our own experiences and it all gets rather murky. In my case, my problems are a direct response to the interpersonal relationships within my tribe who lived cheek by jowl in a concentrated area, and their extremely damaging interplay. My own experiences inevitably resulted from these other families' game plays. We went down in a heap because we didn't understand the predatory nature of others. Do now, but too late. The damage has been done.

I am speaking from an examination of the effects within my own family. And none of this has anything to do with the function of the brain. It concerns resulting disorders of personalities and I see so much of that here.

[Historylover]

@chibam said "Because I think there is still this massive presumption that it's the mental health system that alleviates all human suffering; so when your average bystander knows someone who is suffering terribly, they believe that the only thing they are supposed to do is coerce the suffering person into going into the mental health system to recieve "treatment"". and, for the most part, it is simply ineffective— or further damaging or minimally effective.

Or everyone jumps on the medication bandwagon. No medication can help me. It can only alleviate my distress while my problems go from bad to worse. Our personalities and moods bend and warp from the insufferable circumstances we endure. And they so conveniently call it 'mental illness'. It's such a cop out. And therapists do so with such 'authority'. And are believed.

And yes, if anyone who has caused me such distress would have the decency to acknowledge that they have caused my problems and could fix them if they dared, I would have the same ordinary problems as everyone else. But while I have more problems than they have, they'll maintain the status quo. It's more comfortable for them. We just need a fair go for all—then so called 'mental illness' would melt away.

[Jynx]

Hey all @Historylover  @chibam  @MDT just popping in to add my two cents! 

I think this whole conversation is such an important one, especially because it is the voices of those with lived experience that should be shaping how we approach treatment. I've often joked that we could erase almost the entirety of the diagnoses in the DSM-V and replace them with a single guide -  'The Differing Ways that the Human Mind Responds to Trauma'

The thing is, there is now an absolute wealth of evidence that supports the idea that most 'mental illness' is in fact the normal way that the human brain responds to chronic stress and traumatic experiences - in particular, when there is insufficient psychosocial support to help them cope with, and move on from said experiences. I've recently been reading The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk (I very highly recommend it by the way) in which the author talks a fair bit about how traumatic experiences physically impact the brain, as well as touching on some of the history of psychopharmacology. He makes note of the trend that emerged of conceptualising mental health issues as issues of brain chemistry, and nothing more - thus shaping treatment to be chemical, and failing to recognise the significant ways that our psychosocial worlds will also influence our physical bodies. 

I think you make a very good point @Historylover about what is commonly called intergenerational trauma - that we can and do inherit the unresolved traumatic experiences of our ancestral heritage. Is it any wonder that rates of physical illness and mental health struggles are far more prevalent in our indigenous population after everything the colonisers put them through? 

I think the one of the greatest mistakes we ever made as a society was to separate out the medical system from the mental health system. To look at a human body as nothing but a series of moving parts that need greasing, and the mind as a separate entity that has nothing to do with the body. The mind and body are an immensely complex, interconnected system, one that requires a comprehensive, integrated, and multi-faceted approach to health and wellness. Medication helps - but usually not without therapy. Therapy also helps - but not if it focuses only on the symptoms, and not on a person's broader social context. 

The good news is that there are a growing number of mental health professionals (including us here at SANE) who do recognise this, and who do see that there is a huge need for change in the ways that we build systems of support. I really like your ideas in this sense @chibam - about addressing the things that are causing the distress in the first place! In fact I think one of the most common, debilitating, and overwhelming things that we all suffer from is disconnectedness - from ourselves, and from our communities - and that needs to be part of the process. If we want to have any real impact on the prevalence of human suffering, we need to look at the whole bio-psychosocial picture: mind, body, community. 

[Historylover]

For me, @Jynx, I would say ' The Differing Ways the Human Personality, Reason, Behaviour and Mood Responds to Trauma'. And it all occurs through the mind, so I guess I am just saying the same thing with more words, but I wanted to make my additional differentiation clear.

Yes, re our Indigenous peoples' intergenerational trauma. Our society can't change what it doesn't acknowledge and understand. 

[Jynx]

True @Historylover ! Hmm...
Dynamic Human Responses to Trauma? Or the DHRT for short! 

Absolutely, there are too many blind eyes being turned. 

[petrichor]

Sorry all,

for me the conversation is just depressing. All I can see is blah blah change your life and your head will be good. Just makes my head hurt. I work so hard on making all these changes and my brain still messes me up.