Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Alessandra1992]

Hiv@Gray, as things change sometimes things get missed out..I am glad places like Aradale Asylum closed but I do agree with your point that it can be ridiculously difficult to get help when needed. I supposey main concern is that early intervention is difficult to access and that is what worries me with the NDIS..
As a loony MIP or a miploon working in community mental health I see many areas that are improving and areas that need I.proving. The challenge is in resourcing...

[Gray]

MIPLOON... I love it.  Maybe we have started something

Consumer... I hate it! It has connotations of "over indulgence" on the part of MIPs. It is all part of the drive since the late 1980's to massively reduce the government services available to MIPS. It makes them, and in particular LOONs, feel guilty when they reach out for help.

My other label is BUP  not PUP.. as in Brainwashed Uncaring Person

OK, Excerpt 2  Retrain or Fire and Replace

Using an appropriately trained task force, with a dedicated protocol. (this will take a long time,) we will locate, interview, Retrain or Fire and Replace all of the Government Establishment BUPs. (95% of those working there now)

An absolutely essential part of the protocol is that like antibiotics, we must not stop until we are finished. 

The replacements will be CDPs or Caring  Dedicated Persons who may or may not be professionals.

And then, bit by bit, our CDPs will welcome with open arms probable MIPS into hospitals usually because they have already been pre-accessed as MIPS by the best psychiatrists in the world: LOONS.

Our CDP's will also make it their life's work to take all the time needed and use whatever meds are needed to fully stabilize the MIPs before they are released.

And MIPS will not be released until they have somewhere appropriate to go.

SO Sandy: Do you still want Excerpt 3?

There will also be an addendum: Where will the money come from?

[Alessandra1992]

Hmmm now I have to say I have worked with psychiatrists and psychologists as well as a peer support group and I needed all 3 at different times. I argued with my psychiatrist to stay on meds when he wanted me to stop taking them, at one point they were necessary for my role as a LOON..I preferred to medicate myself with my fully developed brain and powers of reason than to medicate the person I care for..
I sacked my first psychologist easily a person with little regard for women and for the impact of caring.
However, in my caring role I have worked with two psychologists to assist in my carer role..

I work alongside many colleagues who I believe are dedicated, skilled practioners so I cant agree with the BUP term. I have encountered a few in my voluntary work as well and my mind boggles that they are working with people as some of them appear to not actually like people..a but too removed and threatened by assertive self aware consumers who do know what the recovery consumer movement is about and understand how power imbalance can damage therapeutic relationships..

Dear me..rambling on..there are some really great websites like our consumer place or mad in america, a mad history.. Well worth viewing them to get a different point of view..

In my role as a LOON I have developed excellent advocacy skills but will continue to be frustrated at times.

[Gray]

Hiya, Sandy, me again.

Thanks for maintaining this session with me.

1) I am yet to meet and deal with a psychologist who isn't a dangerous MIP/BUP. One told my son that there was no such thing as Bipolar and that his manic behaviour was due to a bad upbringing.  My son immediately went off his meds and caused havoc until he was put on a community order..

2) Do you want excerpt 3 of my awesome diatribe.

Lotsa love  Gray Gray (A Loon)

[Alessandra1992]

Well as stated earlier I sacked my first psychologist because he was a moron. Told me I would need therapy for years and I would need to attend his private groups! Hello conflict of interest why would I need to attend his private groups?
However, my experiences with other psychologists has been supportive, practical, hopeful and respectful.
Personally I would have reported the professional who stated there is no such thing as bipolar. Please visit the Lived Experience forum, or encourage your son too as there is plenty of discussion around living with bipolar, c-ptsd, BPD and other stuff..

For many of us to though, poor parenting has been a traumatic part of our life..that is not to suggest this is always the case, but families can be very tricky to navigate..

Maybe your son's psychologist had their own agenda..I would not give up hope though, there are caring committed practioners out there..

[Gray]

Hiya Sandy,

I am sorry but I am yet to meet a psychologist who isn't weird and I have met with quite a few with my son.

I don't see him any more. He lives in another state. His mum and I could not agree, no, we violently disagreed on a protocol for dealing with and helping him. She wanted to wrap him in cotton wool and surround him with love and give him whatever he wanted.  I wanted him to discipline himself, with our help and the help of meds..  Net result..  BOOOOM! So I left.  The constant conflict made his malady worse.

Anyway Sandy, you haven't asked for Excerpt three.  But I am going to give it to you anyway.

Excerpt Three:

Interview and then employ proper case managers... P.CAMS. These people must not be BUPS. Caring understanding human beings are best for the job. These  P.CAMS must then get on the road constantly working proactively with MIPS who are on their own in the community as well as living with their LOONS.  Their mandate is "CLOSE THE BARN DOOR BEFORE THE HORSE BOLTS."   They must also focus deeply on LOONS to make sure they don't become MIPS too.

If my family had had this, as described (Not pretend P.CAMS) we might just have survived.

I/we were happy to shoulder most of the burdon of having a MIP son.  We just couldn't do it all.

[Alessandra1992]

@Gray..heart wrenching as it takes a village to raise a child and that seems to be part of our biggest issue..we've lost our village..
Have you heard of "open Dialogue". In West Finland there is now no schizophrenia or psychosis that lasts beyond 3 weeks!
That is an evidence base of over 25 years..
It involves bringing families, friends and a treatment team together to explore what is causing the mental health crisis..

It is the most exciting development that I know of and would live to see it in Australia.. Requires retraining, and lots of money..
There's a video on YouTube or google on the web..
Take care let me know what you think..

[Gray]

Hi Sandy,

OK, I've looked at the Finnish "Open Dialogue"  model, thank you, and I love it...

Did you you notice the three specific and very important differences between what they do and what we do..

1) Immediacy

2) They care a lot about MIPS and LOONS.

3) It irrefutably works.

Here are some cut and pasted excerpts to validate my points:

They also told me that they liked it that their therapists met with them immediately in their crises, and didn’t put them off for months on endless, bureaucratic waiting lists. They liked it that therapists gave them the choice of meeting in their own homes or in clinics.

They liked it that when they were in crisis they could invite their family and friends and other important people from their lives into therapy meetings 

One young Finnish man, who, along with his family, sought help in an emotional crisis, shared something interesting with me after I asked him what he thought of their Open Dialogue psychiatric system. He replied, “Well, it’s kind of like the town’s water-works — they do a good job. When you turn on the faucet in your kitchen sink, you know that good, clean water comes out and you can drink it or cook with it. You trust that it will work, and that you won’t get sick from the water. It’s the same with psychiatry here — we trust them. When we have problems, we go to them. They are reliable, they care about us, and they do a good job. They help us. They make our lives better. It’s just normal. But really, we don’t think about it too much. Mostly, it’s really just like the water-works — we expect it to work, and it does.”

Must I spell it out:  What happens here is that MIFS in crisis spend 5 minutes in hospital then are drugged up and literally thrown out into the community with token support.  LOONS get nothing.

My family, which I still pine for after many, many years was blown apart like a hand grenade. We simply couldn't cope.  We were never invited to participate.  We were never investigated and nurtured as probably the best possible environment for our MIP. When we reached out for help, we got the finger!!!

Now Sandy, do you want Excerpt 4. The final and perhaps most interesting?

Lotsa love

Gray Gray.

[Alessandra1992]

Of course I want to hear Part 4 @Gray!! 

1. The other side of Open Dialogue is that because it's been going for 25 years, I think I read soemwhere that everyone in that region of West Finland has had some contact with the Open Dialogue model as either a friend or family member..so stigma is much reduced because it's not considered axtraordinary to have a mental health crisis per se..and yes it's the immediate and intensive engagement that appears key..

I am so sad to read of the implosion of your family, and as a consumer I it''s very difficult to assume a person will get well if they comply with medications. Sometimes, medication is not the answer, sometimes it's a part of the answer and sometimes it's for a specific period of stabilising.

I am a big believer of loving people back to health, and that applies to all members of the family..mental health is generally uninvited and unwelcome..but surprisingly can be an opportunity for discovering new talents and abilities..there's a blog on the Lived Experience Forum that talks about this..if only I had the skills to hyperlink.. perhaps @CherryBomb @Hobbit @NikNik can hyperlink the discussion on gifts of Mental Illness?

[Gray]

Hmmm. I got your last reply via an email but I can't find it here in the Forum. Ah well, never mind.

STIGMA!!!  I repudiate the use of the term when it is used to describe the so called reaction of the community to MIPs. "Frightened"... yes, if they witness a MIP in a  manic phase or somesuch, but Stigma.. no way.  Most persons wouldn't recognise a MIP if they fell over one.  Other than their looking tired/drowsy, due to meds,  when they walk around, most MIPs exhibit absolutely no untoward symptoms

"STIGMA" Is yet another term like Consumer, and Carer, introduced to make the public feel guilty about apparently not accepting MIPS.  The powers that be want the community to welcome MIPS, well or unwell and if they don't, for whatever reason (fear etc).. STIGMA!!

 SO, Excerpt 4..  The final phase of my master plan.  How do we finance it???

It's simple really. We just reverse the outflow of extra cash that occurred in the mid to late 1980's, and went straight into the pockets of.. Politicians, Public Servants, County Counsellors, Governors, Thinkers in Residence etc.

In a nutshell: We reduce the wages, allowances, superannuation, lurks and perks etc. etc. enjoyed by these avaricious, sociopathic, people, by one quarter.

And in doing so Sandy, there will be more than enough for us to undertake my overall plan and then the Finnish, Open Dialogue Model,  immediately.

And that is all I have to say on the matter.

G G.